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Debate/Discussion: Ban/End IndyCar Racing on the High Banked D-Shaped 1-½ Mile Ovals?

At the defunct IndyCar Nation Talkback forum I created a discussion/topic re the utterly foolish/unreasonable high risk/danger of Indy/open-wheel cars racing on the high banked D-shaped mile and a half cookie cutter ovals. My opinion at that time was and remains is that Indy/open-wheel cars should not be racing on said ovals, as said ovals were designed specifically for stock car racing and IMO are unsuitable for the current Indy/open-wheel cars. [1]

In the topic I labeled the flat-out running in a pack style of IndyCar racing produced on the high banked D-shaped mile and a half cookie cutter ovals as Russian Roulette Racing. Each and every lap every driver must spin the cylinder of a revolver containing one round…after doing so each driver is compelled/required to place the revolver up against their helmet and pull the trigger. My opinion was as long as this style of IndyCar racing continued on said ovals, it was inevitable that it would be just a matter of time until the round in the cylinder would line up with the hammer and the barrel for one or more of the drivers…

On 10-16-2011 at Las Vegas Motor Speedway the round in the cylinder lined up with the hammer and the barrel, and the flat-out running in a pack style of IndyCar racing I label as Russian Roulette Racing claimed/took the life of Mr. Wheldon.

Condolences to the Wheldon Family and to his extended IndyCar family.

Until something is done to keep the Indy/open-wheel cars from running flat-out in a pack on said ovals, at any/all future races on said ovals every driver will still be compelled/required to keep on spinning the cylinder of the revolver each and every lap and place the revolver up against their helmet and pull the trigger. If the style of racing described herein on said ovals continues I believe it is again just a matter of time until the round in the cylinder will line up with the hammer and the barrel once again for one or more of the drivers…

Hearsay/rumor/gossip/talk has already begun that it is highly likely/probable that the 2012 IndyCar season finale at Las Vegas Motor Speedway will be cancelled/removed from the 2012 IndyCar Series schedule. Moreover that the 2012 IndyCar Series date at Texas Motor Speedway may also be on the chopping block.

Suitable Indy/open-wheel oval tracks other than the high banked D-shaped mile and a half cookie cutters exist, and I have designed many new and highly challenging/novel/unique ovals specifically for modern era Indy/open-wheel cars.

[1] Four time IndyCar Series Champion Mr. Dario Franchitti stated yesterday (10-16-2011) during a televised interview that the Las Vegas Motor Speedway D-shaped mile and a half oval is not a suitable track for IndyCars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCHVItEY-yA

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Permalink Reply by Norm Latimer on October 17, 2011 at 4:08pm

While I agree somewhat with your statements, that doesn't leave much room for Indycar racing on hardly any ovals. And with that being said, your basically back to Cart.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Lee Cox on October 18, 2011 at 9:58am

Banning/ending all IndyCar events/races on the high banked D-shaped 1.5 mile “cookie cutter“ ovals does not necessarily mean that the IndyCar Series must transform into CART. Tangible/viable options/solutions exist.

Example:

If Las Vegas and Texas Motor Speedway are abandoned/cancelled, the remaining three (3) ovals on the 2012 IndyCar Series schedule are Auto Club Speedway, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and Iowa Speedway.

If the 2012 IndyCar Series events/races at Las Vegas and Texas are abandoned/cancelled, said series should do any and or all things possible to replace these two oval track events/races with oval track events/races elsewhere too keep the oval count at five (5).

Some of the ovals in North America that IMO are suitable or could be made suitable for Indy/open-wheel cars.

Autódromo Miguel E. Abed - 1.25 mile oval

Burke Lakefront Airport - 1.0 mile oval [1]

Gateway International Raceway - 1.25 mile oval

Milwaukee Mile - 1.0 mile oval

New Hampshire Motor Speedway - 1.0 mile oval

Phoenix International Raceway - 1.0 mile oval

Pikes Peak International Raceway -1.0 mile oval

Pocono Raceway - 2.5 mile oval

Richmond International Raceway - 0.75 mile oval

Walt Disney World Speedway - 1.0 mile oval

[1] Proposed Burke lakefront airport oval track layout

http://www.indycargarage.com/group/indycarseriesschedule/forum/topi...

Replace Texas with say for example Phoenix International Raceway on June 9. Replace Las Vegas with say for example Pocono. [2] Make the ICS event at Auto Club Speedway the location of said series 2012 season finale on Oct. 7 or 14. Schedule the ICS event at Pocono Raceway on Sept. 15.

Both Phoenix and Pocono [2] are highly requested oval tracks/venues that the majority of the IndyCar Series fan base would like to see on/be a part of said series schedule.

2012 IndyCar Series Schedule with the Las Vegas and Texas high banked D-shaped 1.5 mile “cookie cutter“ ovals. Five (5) oval track events/races.

March 25: St. Pete
April 1: Barber
April 15: Long Beach
April 29: Sao Paulo
May 27: Indy
June 3: Belle Isle
June 9: Texas doubleheader
June 24: Iowa
July 8: Toronto
July 22: Edmonton
Aug. 5: Mid-Ohio
Aug. 26: Infineon
Sept. 2: Baltimore
Sept. 15: Fontana
Sept. 23: China - tentative
Oct. 14: Las Vegas

Sample 2012 IndyCar Series schedule void of the Las Vegas and Texas high banked D-shaped 1.5 mile “cookie cutter“ ovals. Five (5) oval track events/races.

March 25: St. Pete
April 1: Barber
April 15: Long Beach
April 29: Sao Paulo
May 27: Indy
June 3: Belle Isle
June 9: Phoenix doubleheader
June 24: Iowa
July 8: Toronto
July 22: Edmonton
Aug. 5: Mid-Ohio
Aug. 26: Infineon
Sept. 2: Baltimore
Sept. 15: Pocono [2]
Sept. 23: China - tentative
Oct. 9 or 14: Fontana

I do not want to see the IndyCar Series transform into CART II. IMO said series should be doing any and all things possible to create the most highly diverse schedule in motorsports. A schedule that consist of many track types; I.e. airport circuits, permanent purpose built road courses, temporary street circuits, short-track ovals and superspeedway ovals. [3] Ideally a schedule with a 50/50 balance of twisties/ovals.

[2] Should Pocono actually be added to the IndyCar Series schedule, ideally I would like to see Conceptual Motorsport Facility Plan 3B realized. This would allow for three events/races on three highly distinctively different 2.50 mile superspeedway ovals. Ideally this would allow for three 500 mile superspeedway races that could become a ICS U.S. Superspeedway Triple Crown.

http://www.indycargarage.com/forum/topics/ics-us-superspeedway-triple

[3] As I said in my initial post. I have designed many new and highly challenging/novel/unique ovals specifically for modern era Indy/open-wheel cars. Oval track designs that I believe have the power to add greater oval track diversity too the IndyCar Series; I.e. Superovals in various track lengths from 1.00 mile to 2.50 mile, Bi-loop Superoval Superspeedways, Tri-loop Superoval Superspeedways, Quad-loop Superoval Superspeedways, Meandering Superoval Superspeedways, and the list goes on…

Banning/ending all events/racing on the high banked D-shaped 1.5 mile “cookie cutter“ ovals does not compell the the IndyCar Series to become CART II; moreover it does not have to be the end of oval track events/racing for said series. Again I believe with regard to oval tracks tangible/viable options/solutions exist. It is up to those of authority of said series to explore/realize them.

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Permalink Reply by Curious_Kat on October 17, 2011 at 5:24pm

The problem I see...is the pack racing and the tight corners. A crash in a pack race at a more wide track and longer track like Fontana, I don't see TOO much of a problem.

Texas has close racing, but its not a track that allows 3 wide. It's to tight for that.

After Chicagoland last year, Dario and Kanaan were saying that it may be entertaining to the fans, but someone is going to get hurt.

The only high banked oval I see as suitable for Indycars, is texas. It doesn't have such compact fields.

Kentucky is flat enough to not really have this problem.

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Permalink Reply by Mike4 on October 18, 2011 at 12:09pm

Agree with the Pack Racing assessment. We have 10 year old cars with de-tuned engines in them. No one can run away so the grid stays together pretty much in the starting order instead of stringing out. It's like putting 30 civics in a gymnasium with the cruise control set on 95. No one can get away from anyone else. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen.

I may be in the minority here, but slowing down the cars is not the solution. Open them up and string out the field.

Also: What happened to limiting the starting field to 28 cars?

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Permalink Reply by Gilbert K. Arnold on October 18, 2011 at 12:03am

@ Curious Kat: Even Texas is not really a good track for Indy Cars. TMS was designed and optimized for NASCAR. The only way I can see Indy Cars racing safely on an oval is if it is at least 2 mi in length or a shorter oval with a banking less that 15 degrees. The combination of high banking and high downforce leads to excessive g-loads on the drivers for the whole race. On a shallow banked oval the limiting factor is the lateral acceleration forces exceeding the co-efficient of traction of the tires. When you have a wing setup that provides enough downforce that you can literally drive on the ceiling of a tunnel after reaching a certain speed, is mind-boggling.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Lee Cox on October 20, 2011 at 10:54am

Gilbert, I am sure you remember the Talkback discussion/topic I am referring to in my initial post re the super high risk/immanent danger of open-wheel cars racing on the high banked D-shaped mile and half cookie cutter ovals…the debate/discussion on the matter got pretty heated and got many of the posters/participants pretty riled up…

Quote - Gilbert K. Arnold: @ Curious Kat: Even Texas is not really a good track for Indy Cars. TMS was designed and optimized for NASCAR. End quote.

Correct Gilbert. The 1.5 mile D-shaped ovals of Atlanta, Charlotte and Kansas were also all designed specifically for NASCAR/stock cars.

The original intent re Chicagoland, Kentucky and Las Vegas Motor Speedways was to build these speedways with low to moderate banking in the turns so that they could accommodate both open-wheel and stock cars.

The Indy Racing League opened the 1.5-mile superspeedway at Las Vegas on September 15, 1996. Richie Hearn won the inaugural race.

In 2006, plans were announced to reconfigure the Las Vegas 1.5 mile D-shaped oval after the March 2006 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series event/race. The banking was increasing from 12° to 20° specifically to optimize the racing surface for stock car racing. Subsequent testing before the 2007 season showed significantly higher speeds, with Sprint Cup Series drivers recording unofficial laps at better than 185 mph.

Five (50%) of the top 10 fastest modern NASCAR race tracks on the NASCAR Sprint Cup schedule are 1.5 mile D-shaped ovals. Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicagoland, Las Vegas and Texas.

http://nascar.about.com/od/tracks/tp/fastesttracks.htm

Kentucky Speedway may find its way into the top 10 fastest NASCAR race tracks on the NASCAR Sprint Cup schedule in the near future. With the acquisition of a Sprint Cup date at Kentucky Speedway, hearsay/gossip/rumor/talk is Speedway Motorsports Incorporated is considering increasing/reconfiguring the banking of the turns from the existing constant/uniform 14° banking to a compound/variable banking of somewhere between 20°/21°/22°, 22°/23°/24°.

The cause of proposed modification of the 1.5 mile oval track racing surface of Kentucky Speedway would be to optimize the racing surface for stock cars. Talk is Motorsports Incorporated total consideration/emphasis/focus at said speedway is now with NASCAR, and Bruton Smith believes this action would increase the action/excitement/quality of racing of future NASCAR events at said speedway significantly.

Sunday's crash wasn't the first time an IndyCar went airborne on a 1.5-mile speedway, but Wheldon was the first driver killed recently in such a crash. Davey Hamilton (Texas, 2001), Kenny Brack (Texas, 2003) and Ryan Briscoe (Chicagoland Speedway, 2005) spent months recovering from injuries after their cars hit the fences that prevent cars from sailing into grandstands.

Speed and Versus analyst Robin Miller, who has covered motor sports for more than 40 years, said the brand/style of racing [flat-out pack racing] is way too dangerous. "You can't get out of the throttle because someone will run over the top of you. It's not racing. It's like a big game of chicken. … These tracks [1.5 mile D-shaped ovals] were built for NASCAR stock cars going 50 or 60 mph slower."

Franchitti, who has driven stock cars and Indy cars at Las Vegas Motor Speedway [1.5 mile D-shaped oval track], said flatly, “Indy cars shouldn’t be racing here.”

Adrian Fernandez quit open wheel racing in 2004 when the Indy Racing League was all ovals because he felt it was "too dangerous" on the 1.5-mile tracks.

I have conceptual designs for several flat/very low banked 1.50 mile oval tracks that I designed specifically for modern era open-wheel cars. Even with spec. cars [car equality/parity] it is highly doubtful the cars would be able to run in large packs. On each of these ovals it would be impossible for the drivers to run flat-out. Entering the corners on each of these ovals the drivers would be required lift out of the throttle, downshift and brake. Exiting the corners on each of these ovals the driver would be required to accelerate and upshift. I designed these ovals in a attempt to bring back “purity” in open wheel oval track competition. Re open-wheel cars/the safety of the drivers, I believe that most likely these ovals would be the safest 1.5 mile oval tracks/speedways on the planet.

Moreover, I believe several of the 1.5 mile oval tracks I have designed specifically for modern era open-wheel cars could be built/constructed at a significantly lower cost than what it cost to build/construct a high banked 1.5 mile D-shaped “cookie cutter” superspeedway.

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Permalink Reply by xorpheous on October 18, 2011 at 10:27am

What about the 1.33-mile Nashville oval?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Lee Cox on October 18, 2011 at 11:03am

IMO the 1.33 mile D-shaped Nashville Superspeedway concrete paved oval with it turns banked at only 14 degrees is most likely suitable for Indy/open-wheel cars. IMO safer for Indy/open-wheel cars than the 1.5 mile D-shaped ovals of Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicagoland, Kansas, Kentucky,Texas and Las Vegas.

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Permalink Reply by IndycarAddictus on October 18, 2011 at 5:07pm

At nashville they had to lift. That changed the dynamics of the problem completely for the better.

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Permalink Reply by Linda Willareth on October 18, 2011 at 11:59am

This is a complicated topic but on this morning's Today NBC show, I was irritated to hear NASCAR's Jimmy Johnson openly state Indy Cars should not be racing on ovals. His remarks should not be critical of a series he has no knowledge of. I hope Rick Hendrick shuts him up. We all politely grieved when their NASCAR star, Dale Earnhardt was killed on that VERY FAST DAYTONA--i'm disappointed in Jimmy Johnson's remarks.