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IndyCar teams crying "wolf" regarding costs and budgets.
Thinking about all of the whinging we've been hearing over the past couple of years, the delays in chassis and engine developments that have resulted from it, and now the record-large grid for 2012 made me wonder if the IndyCar teams haven't just become the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
http://openpaddock.net/2012/01/24/indycar-crying-wolf/
Could this turn around and bite them in the rear later down the road if the economy ever becomes extremely dire? It's tough for me to reconcile all of gloom-n-doom predicted by the teams about low grid sizes from the cost of participation and the now high 20s to likely 30 cars signed up for 2012. It makes me mistrust any future complaining by the teams.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by xorpheous on -
It really smells like an inmates-running-the-asylum issue, doesn't it.
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Permalink Reply by PJ Kirschbaum on -
Just like the good ol CART days huh??
To me, we've seen this story before.
Get someone else to pay all the bills and Im not talking sponsors.
Look at the engine lease numbers, they are going to take a bath while the owners all laugh their collective asses off on the way to the bank.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Horton on -
Those CART days were the ones with a lot higher fan base and sponsership involvement. If the evolution was so cheap, I'm sure Newman/Haas would not have backed out so quickly. I'm sure the grid wouldnt be approaching 30 with the aero kits added to the cost. This series is starting to head in the right direction and people complain about not having everything at once. Would you rather 15 car races with new aero kits, or 30 car races with the new car and engines, with more to look forward to next year. We have the luxury of enjoying this sport with almost no cost if we choose, but those teams have bills to pay, I think they have earned the right to decide what they can afford and are willing to pay to compete.
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Permalink Reply by xorpheous on
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The aero kits were mandated to cost no more than $70k per. That's not going to price out half the current grid. NHR backed out of 2012 because of a failure to secure sponsorship. Didn't matter how much it cost to run, they were out at any price.
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Permalink Reply by Curious_Kat on -
I don't know...did you see how many front wings and side pods were broken in just the first two street races at St. Pete and Long Beach? Some teams lost about 500K.
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Permalink Reply by xorpheous on
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And they're going to lose that regardless of whether there's one, two, or five options for aero.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Horton on
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That's $280k per driver, before paint and before anyone hits the wall. Then the real possibility of a kit being less or even non competitive and being faced with needing to switch kits. Look how late Lotus was in rolling their engine out. If they run a bit slower as a result and their kit was to be slower too, you would have a bunch of Milka Dunnos out there creating a hazard and likely crippling those teams chances of even completing the season or even returning in the future. Teams with great sponsorship and deep pockets could likely afford those risks, but several of these new and smaller teams couldn't and wouldn't. New sponsorship deals would likely be a one and out with an uncompetitive season. I am totally with you on moving away from a spec series but the more variables introduced, the higher the risk of being very uncompetitive and that is much of what newer, smaller teams and the series itself could not afford. In a years time, these kits will have time to develop and likely be less of a risk, and thus more affordable.
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Permalink Reply by PJ Kirschbaum on
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Doug,
I think its pure folly that the manufacturers, some of which took a gov bailout to keep them afloat and are now going to run in the red because the engine deal is to low. IE Chevy.
Yet some of these teams have very high budgets ie those owners will be laughing all the way to the bank.
And I'll beleive this 30 car deal when St Pete comes, not before. And while we are on that subject, Id rather have 15-18 damn good cars than 30, half of which are half assed.
They got the Rook Randy hoodwinked into believing they are hurting soo bad they need these deals. Ye tthey have plenty of money to have multi car operations in other series?? But oh my gawwwwd crash damage in an ICS car is soooooo expensive. Ya right ;)
The tail is beginning to wag the dog here.
We've seen this engine deal before, remember the last time chev was in the sport/? Remember the rebadging?? Remember how long they lasted before saying sayonara?
All this 'new' has been done before...lets see how long and how wide the gap is with these engines. Last time and during the cart days, there were haves and have nots. Mark my words, penske and ganassi will magically have about 25-50 more hp than the rest. One of the engines will be a dog outta the box. Its all cyclical, Ive seen it before.
In this economy or ever, the size of the fanbase wasnt just because the series had multiple engines.
Good racing and a stable schedule build crowds. Not some 'sexy' car ( which in my eyes is way uglier than the last gen dallara) that was designed by road racers, for road racing.
As far as these areo kits, again watch what happens, someone gonna biuld the hot setup and by the 3rd-4th race, they will all look the exact same...not the type of differences some fans like to crow about.
I do agree the spec needs opening up but theres a right and wrong way to do things...this is just change for change sake..too much, too new, too fast.
ymmv
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Permalink Reply by Doug Horton on
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I'm not the one screaming for a bunch of hurried up changes, I'm not saying there will be 30 car fields, that was all called out before I even posted. No engine supplier gets into racing to crack off some crazy profit ( except maybe f1, but I don't know how things are there). They do it to build a name and reputation to sell production cars (as well as to bring innovation and efficiency to those production cars) to average Joe you and me. They sell a brand to casual and even non race fans outside the track, they sell t-shirts and what not at the track, but they don't pour money into r&d to collect a profit on the specific engines they lease out. But like Honda sponsoring most every race last year was a huge expense, it was an investment in their name,reputation and association with excellent performance that they will reap profits from on car lots, not race tracks. Penske and Ganassi will be rich from NASCAR alone if this series folds. They vote against the added expenses all at once to preserve the series because as big as they are, they know the series won't survive without the lower budget teams. The series was popular and profitable way back when, we've seen, buick, ford, chevy, Honda,Mercedes,Toyota, firestone,Goodyear,march,Lola,reynard,Penske,dallara, and I'm sure several others over the years, there will be haves and have nots, but the competition makes for excitement in my opinion. My main point is only that in order to get back to that kind of involvement the series needs to build strength in both numbers and quality as you said before. NASCAR has almost always had 3 or so different cars and engines and they field 40 cars and obviously sustain a huge following and good profit, even the little guys. So the diversity seems like at least part of success, I just want as many teams to be able to be involved and keep at least some level of competition.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Horton on
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And you won't get any argument from me about chip Ganassi being a whiner, but if you think him and roger Penske are only in this for the money, they would spend their weekends at the NASCAR tracks, trust me they care about the future and well-being of Indycar racing.
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Permalink Reply by PJ Kirschbaum on
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Penske and Chip care about their bottom line and thats it...care about the sport, not so much ;)
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Permalink Reply by Doug Horton on
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Yeah Roger Penske cares so little for this series, and about lining his own pockets, that he ran two cars with no primary sponsor, for 1+ seasons and last year sponsored cars with his own company. The man owns a lot of different businesses, he doesn't butter his bread with his Indycar team, trust me, NASCAR is far more profitable.
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